Stuff to eat. Mostly around St. Louis.
An Interview with Dave Stine and Stephanie Abbajay
Presented by Stag Beer
Dave stine is an enigma. A modern day paul bunyan. a lawyer. an amazing home cook. a prolific drinker. And the woodworker behind david stine furniture.
For those of you who haven’t had the pleasure of meeting dave, here’s his story in a nutshell: he was born and raised outside of Alton, Illinois on his family’s land. they were dairy farmers. dairy farming was less than enjoyable, to say the least. his grandfather and father taught him woodworking. he went to college at penn state, then George washington university law school. being a lawyer was also less than enjoyable. this led to him leaving law behind, becoming the lawless woodworker he is today.
all of his tables—which can be found at many of your favorite restaurants, like Elmwood, louie, Balkan Treat box, Sardella, rockwell, The Tenderloin room, and more—are made from wood he has harvested from dead trees on his own land.
his partner in the business is his wife, Stephanie abbajay. I sat down with them over a farm lunch of pork, potatoes, pickles, and stag to discuss business, life, and steak.
Dave Stine: I’ve been selling stuff that I’ve made, grown, bred, or harvested my whole life. That’s the way I grew up. Raising cattle, showing the cattle at 4-H, then selling the cattle.
Stephanie Abbajay: Success, I think, was when Dave didn’t have to go to his law job. It was being able to not do what he didn’t want to do, and only do what he wanted to. It was never financial.
D.S.: The overall goal was to do woodworking and to work for myself, but more importantly doing our own designs and finding customers for those. Staying in our lane.
S.A.: Our view of success has always been being independent. Not being beholden to other people’s interests. It’s never been based on money. It’s picking and choosing what we want to do.
D.S.: The power of no. Being able to say no to things is very powerful. Being in the driver’s seat of what you do everyday is all about being able to say no to things you don’t want to do.
If someone wanted me to build a house for them, I could, but I’m not going to do that.
D.S.: Our house is littered with pieces of furniture that just don’t work. But they’re all for sale!
S.A.: I see Dave as a craftsman with the soul of an artist. When he was able to do only what he wanted to do, he was an artist. Every single piece was one-of-a-kind.
D.S.: I struggled for years with people saying I was an artist, or that my furniture was art. I started playing around with functional art, sculptural art. I don’t know.
S.A.: We basically have two businesses. The artistic side: the one-of-a-kind Dave Stine-vision pieces. Then there’s the commercial side: we can do 10 of these tables and they will all look the same. It’s the perfect articulation of how you need to be in a business: you can be an artist, but you can also create a product that can be reproduced.
D.S.: The stuff we do for Gioia’s, they aren’t artistic tables, but the art in that is my relationship with Alex, figuring out what looks good in that space, what Gioia’s means to people, and what physical items I can help him build that reinforce the whole idea of the brand. There’s some kind of art in that.
D.S.: The artistic skill in that big table is understanding what that thing could be. But then you have to set aside your own ego and let that table be whatever it should be. You have to show restraint. You have to know when to stop. People want to take a table like that, gouge out a bunch of shit, pour in epoxy, and really put their stamp on it. I get that. It’s tempting. It’s why people carve their names into trees. I think it’s much more interesting to find the right piece of lumber for that person and work within that parameter.
“Put something down for 24 hours and look at it with fresh eyes. ”
D.S.: Yeah, I’m competitive. In my lane. I don’t want or need to build every table in the world. But I should have the right of first refusal. That only seems fair (laughs). No one is more competitive than Stephanie.
S.A.: I let other people win sometimes.
D.S.: Which says how competitive you are! You LET them win.
D.S.: Twenty years ago, no. Now, yes. Almost every woodworker will take a live edge job now.
D.S.: We’ve had issues with tables in various places from time to time. They call, I stop what I’m doing, then I go address the issue and fix it. I give everyone the same warranty: it’ll be great, and if it’s not, call me.
If I’m dead, you’re out of luck.
“I love it when the tables look used and beaten up. I think stuff looks better that way. ”
D.S.: Teaching woodworking to my guys is as important to me as it is to them. If they’re really interested, I’m really interested in sharing. I’ve learned just as much from them as they’ve learned from me. There are things we do much differently now than we did before Eli started 7 years ago. We find better ways that work.
D.S.: You always want your kid to at least be proud of you and understand what you’re doing. If they’re interested enough to work with you or want to take over, that would be amazing. It’s taken a lot to build this toehold, and it’d be great if someone could take it over, but people gotta do their own thing too.
S.A.: A bar, a nightclub, and a restaurant. We sold the nightclub first. We only had it for two years, but we sold it when it was super hot. Then we opened the restaurant. We sold that when we moved to St. Louis. I didn’t sell the bar until 2010.
The hours. When you’re in your 20s, it’s fun to stay up until 5am and then jump on the back of your husband’s Harley and go have breakfast. Then you get married and have kids. You get to the restaurant at 3pm, doors open at 5pm, and then that Tuesday night just yawns in front of you and you’d rather be at home with your family. Add on people calling off or not showing up...no thanks.
I don’t mind putting 100% of myself into something. I actually prefer that. But I do want to not have to worry about it constantly. With a nightclub or a restaurant, you’re always worrying.
D.S.: We sold the restaurant and broke even. Which puts us ahead of about 80% of other restaurant owners.
D.S.: Stephanie’s red raspberry jam is my favorite. Or maybe it’s the blackberry jam. Close second are my mom’s sweet pickles—you can’t find them anywhere else, because they’re such a pain to make. And the sauerkraut we make. The pickled eggs in beet juice. I don’t know. I’m German. I love pickles.
“There’s nothing better than having a freezer full of meat.”
D.S.: I really miss having fresh milk. You can’t even describe to people the difference. Unpasteurized, straight from the tap.
D.S.: Mixed color fingerling potatoes from Mom’s garden. A 2-inch thick steak. Roasted asparagus. Stag. No TV. Just the fireplace.
SA: When we moved out here from DC, I brought 10 cases of my favorite beer from the East Coast. I was like, there’s no way I’m going to find good beer out there. I’m not drinking crappy local beer. When I got through all my beer, I tried a Stag and fell in love with it. I love Stag.
DS: If you don’t like Stag, you don’t like beer. Growing up, all the people around here drank Stag. Steak Taters And Gravy. Saint Ag. Our family friend used to have great sayings. He’d always say, “you know the thing I love about Stag? You can drink a case of it every night and still go to work the next day!”
I don’t care at all about the cans. Just don’t change the gold color or the recipe.
“It’s the local beer. It tastes like home. ”
This interview is presented by Stag Beer, Born in Belleville, Illinois.
Jeffrey Moll on Amaro
Here’s what I know about amaro: it’s Italian, and Randolfi’s master mixologist, Jeffrey Moll, likes loves it.
That’s it.
I asked Moll to give me the run down on 5 of his favorite amari so I can add them to my bar and impress my friends, and now you can too. Or you could just go over to Randolfi’s, pull up a seat at the bar, and learn something from the master himself. Plus, his name fall cocktail menu just arrived, and it is immense. [Randolfi’s has since closed, but you can still find Jeffrey slangin’ drinks around town]
Averna Amaro
“This amaro was my very first experience with amaro and certainly one of the more recognizable brands. It’s definitely on the sweet side in the spectrum of amari. I get a big hit of rich cola and bitter orange from it. Because it’s one of the more sweet, thick, and ‘chewy’ amari, it’s really nice neat as as an after dinner libation, much like a port wine. It really opens up with a generous amount of soda water and I strongly recommend replacing the sweet vermouth in your next Manhattan—with Averna, it’s known as a Black Manhattan.”
Luxardo Amaro
“This is the amaro that made me fall in love with amari for the first time. I went to Taste with my friend Seth, who was running the bar at MEDIAnoche at the time. I saw it on the shelf and asked for a pour. Right out of the gate, I got a ton of black pepper on the nose. My tasting notes consisted of black pepper, menthol, and cinnamon, if you look a little deeper. I begged Seth to pick up a bottle for the bar at work and it remained a staple throughout MEDIAnoche, Little Country Gentleman, Good Pie 2.0 and currently at Randolfi’s. It has made its way into several drinks and I found that it lends itself best to mezcal drinks, champagne cocktails, and drinks with a healthy measure of oloroso or P.X. sherry. I recommend this amaro neat or over ice. If you throw any sort of bubbles at it, make sure you do it with tonic, or as a spritz with a dry cava and a touch of soda water, garnished with some mint sprigs.”
Amaro Sibilia
“I would call this my “Amaro Graduation Exam”. It’s nothing terribly extreme, but it’s an amaro that’s not for everyone. It’s very dry, very bitter and very expensive. It’s finished with honey from Mount Sibillini, so you’re provided a small window to the local flora where it’s produced.This is the one that I had to try the hardest to find its nuances. Its aroma is very fragrant and floral. At first the taste is dry and bitter gentiane. That way fresh churned earth smells, it’s that. The honey is the hard one to find if you don’t know it’s in there, but once you do, you get it every time. If you can break this one down, you can break pretty much any other amaro you come across. I often use this amaro as a way to put sweeter cocktails in check. Aside from that, my opinion it to drink it neat or over ice, but it does work really nicely with big scotches like Lagavulin 16 and with nocino.”
Lazzaroni Amaro
“I don’t have any sort of romantic story to offer for this amaro. It came into our market and I really enjoy the rest of Lazzaroni’s lineup, especially their amaretto, so I picked this one up for the restaurant bar. Lately, this is the amaro I am drinking the most of at home. Aromatically, it is similar to Cynar, Zucca, or Amaro Sfumato: smokey veg. The taste is spot on for a dark chocolate peppermint patty. At work, this amaro has only made it’s way into one cocktail called “May All Your Days Be Gold” (I’m a bit of a Sparklehorse fan), but at home, I am drinking this as a 3:2 amaro to soda water over ice. I can guarantee that it will find it’s way into at least a few hot chocolates.”
Fernet Amaro
“People who don’t usually drink amaro are usually pretty taken back by fernet. The fernet that most of us are familiar with is Fernet Branca. I often describe it as tasting like Christmas tree-flavored Listerine. Fernets are a special subcategory of amaro. They are much drier, more bitter, and extremely mentholated. Fernets are nothing to trifled with, but they’re nothing that deserves to be feared. I can tell you that in the case of Fernet Branca, I have had three regionally different versions.
The one we get here is my least favorite because of its extreme nature. I have had this same brand from Europe and Argentina and the differences are night and day. The latter two in comparison to our American version are a lot more amiable. They’re still dry, bitter and mentholated, but to a lesser extent, so you get more of the bitter herbs and aren’t overwhelmed like ours. THIS is why I love Lazzaroni’s Fernet so much more. Its just easier to drink and a great introductory fernet-style amaro. I often use this to make Fanciullis and to settle my stomach after I’ve over-eaten. I recommend this one over ice to mute a little of its intensity—definitely with an equal part of soda water and a lemon or orange peel expressed across it.”
Justin "The Hill Topper" Bruegenhemke
There once was a time where you couldn't get on your phone or computer to quickly find out what the best sandwich on The Hill was. You had to either find some kind of official food publication or talk to an expert. A real human! You'd schlep over to Tony's house down the road and ask him. He'd been to every single shop. He knew the owners. He knew what to eat and what to avoid. Tony was the sandwich guy, a badge he wore proudly. He probably didn't even have a job, he'd just sit in front of his house and talk sandwiches while working on his car. We don't have a lot of those people these days. Now we just have idiots on Yelp. However! We do have Justin Bruegenhemke, a young, upstanding gent who was spending his lunches eating sandwiches all over The Hill, when his neighbor asked him "what's the best sandwich?" Bruegenhemke's response: "I haven't eaten them all, so I can't tell you."
Sick of his excuses for not providing an answer to their sandwich inquiries, his neighbors laid out a challenge (or perhaps a demand?): try them all! With the guanto thrown, Bruegenhemke took on a new identity.
Sandwich Shops on The Hill
Gioia's
Adriana's
Amighetti's
Eovaldi's
Joe Fassi's
Southwest Market
Viviano's
Urzi's
Mama Toscano's
From that day forward, he would be The Hill Topper. He set about to eat 158 sandwiches from The Hill's 9 sandwich shops, a task so daunting, none had attempted it before. On January 18th, The Hill Topper project was completed—Gioia's Hogfather marked #158.
I've followed Bruegenhemke (on Twitter and Instagram) from around the midway point, growing more and more impressed with each sandwich he downed. It seemed to me that he was either my competition or my new BFF. Our shared interests in whiskey, Nick Blue's cheeseburger, and eating excessively pointed to BFF. There was only one way to figure it out: a meet-up at the home of Hot Salami, Gioia's—a place I shamefully admit I had not been to.
I get there early and hold a table, which feels like it might be a faux pas. I pull my camera out so everyone knows I mean business. The door opens behind me and there he is: dressed in all black, it's The Hill Topper. I'm fairly shocked to see he's not 350 lbs, but that probably goes both ways.
We get in line; I defer our ordering to him, seeing as he is the expert. We get the Spicy Daggett—Hot Salami, hot coppa, and capicolla, and spicy giardiniera on toasted garlic pepper cheese bread—and, off the not-so-secret secret menu, his namesake, The Hill Topper: capicolla, Hot Salami and hot beef topped with spicy giardiniera and pepper jack cheese, all on toasted garlic bread.
The sandwiches are, as with most Italian sandwiches, hefty. I already know I won't be feeling good about myself later this evening. We split each sandwich in half and swap. I start with the Spicy Daggett. GODDAMN. Most Italian sandwiches bore me, but the hot salami—somewhere between mortadella, porchetta di testa, and headcheese—is sending chills down my spine.
"I thought hot salami was just spicy salami originally, but the hot comes from being warm. You can order logs of it, then slow cook it at home for 10 hours," Bruegenhemke says. "I want to slice it thick and cook it real crispy. I want some eggs on it."
Just thinking about this on a breakfast sandwich clogs my heart a little, but it would be so worth it.
The Hill Topper is the beefy cousin of the Spicy Daggett. "I used to come in and get the Spicy Dagget, then I subbed out one of the cured porks for beef. It's much less salty and spicy because of the beef," Justin explains. He's right. It's a beautiful blend of meats and toppings.
You're hungover and craving breakfast?
Donna Do You Wanna's Heartthrob at J Viviano's
Breakfast, lunch, & dinner in one?T
The Space Ball at Gioia's
Something quick and affordable?
How does a 9inch Meatball with homemade red sauce Eovaldi's for $5 sound? Hit them up Monday-Friday for lunch.
Need warmth on a cold winter's day?
Gorgonzola Dip at Adriana's
Got the need for cheese?
The Daily State Special at Eovaldi's
Don't eat pork?
Mary's Special - Adriana's Sicilian Bomber - Eovaldi's New York Philly- Gioia's
"How long did it take for you to eat all 158 sandwiches?" I ask.
"When I decided to do it, I crossed off the sandwiches I'd had ten times and knew everything about. If there were sandwiches that I thought I’d had but wasn’t sure, i left them on and had it again. Initially, I crossed off 30 or so. I would go to Gioia's and Adriana’s all the time before."
"It took me about a year—I had over 100 sandwiches in less than 12 months. It’s a decent pace, a sandwich every other day. Also, no issue on doing half and half. You can eat half a sandwich and get what it’s about."
"Your son is going to be so proud of you one day," I say.
I ask him what his favorite of the 9 shops is. Justin answers, without skipping a beat, "I find myself telling everyone to go to Gioia’s, Eovaldi’s, and Adriana’s. These three just shine above the rest. Mama Toscano’s is good, but they only have six or seven sandwiches. It’s basically just take out. They have the best toasted ravioli’s in the world, though. They do a meatball parmesan—breaded and fried meatballs—it’s really good. Basically a toasted ravioli sandwich."
Rather than picking a single favorite, he's come up with a series of lists for you to adhere to. Coming soon on Whiskey And Soba, we'll have his "Best at Each" restaurant, and below you'll find the "Quintessentials". However, there was one sandwich worse than the rest: the egg salad at Southwest Market.
Bruegenhemke's determination is admirable, to say the least. Mere mortals would give up on such an undertaking after sandwich 50 or so. When I ask him if he's glad it's over, he seems thankful; he can go back to eating just his favorites...but there's a glint in his eyes, a smirk on his face. He's got something else up his sleeve. I nudge and prod, but he won't give in. The Hill Topper has another eating conquest in mind, but he's not ready to share it.
For his sake, I hope it's eating every salad in town. But we all know it won't be.
JB’s Quintessentials
Gioia's
Hot Salami on garlic cheese bread
Eovaldi's
The Extra Special
Adriana's
Sicilian Salsiccia
Adriana's
Joe's Special
Adriana's
The Gorgonzola Dip
Gioia's
The Berra Park Club
Gioia's
Porknado
Eovaldi's
The Godfather
Gioia's
The Hogfather
J Viviano's
The Sophia Loren
Gioia's
Spicy Daggett
Mama Toscano's
Meatball Parmesan
J Viviano's
The Butch
J Viviano's
New York Steak Sandwich
Gioia's
The Hill Topper